Note: This is a reprint of an answer I posted in the comments section of my article on Bodybuilding.com. It wasn't technically a question to begin with, but rather some comments from a somewhat opinionated reader. I found it an interesting back-and-forth, so I decided to share it here.
Question: So basically you followed all the broscience in the world and it actually worked!? No offense at all. You look crazy good, especially for your age. Your arms are huge also. I am seriously miring but also confused as hell, because IF (Intermittent Fasting), fasted cardio, the soy estrogen thing, no carbs in afternoon, etc have all been either scientifically proven wrong, or not scientifically proven to exist/work. And yet here you are. Shredded from fat as fk to lean mofo. Thats probably why others have asked if you cycled. If your avi was the leanest, then I wouldnt say you were 5% (calipers dont measure anywhere near accurately), more like 8 or so, but nonetheless, you're more cut than I have ever been and I've been dieting for 6 weeks now and only lost 4.5kg (10lb). Crazy work.
Answer: Like I have mentioned before, I am no expert. I was just reporting what I did and what I thought I learned, but I concede that I haven't studied the science behind it. If I wait until I am an expert at something before I do it, I will never do anything. That is why I read what others, scientists and non-scientists alike, have to say on various topics and then pick the things that sound reasonable to me. I try it out and if it seems to work for me, I incorporate it into what I'm doing. I am glad I didn't know Intermittent Fasting doesn't work, because I would not have tried it if I knew that. Obviously, I didn't know the other things had been scientifically proven wrong as well, because I have no interest in promoting useless things or looking like a fool. You have piqued my interest and I will look into it. I do not advocate anyone follow my aggressive approach, but I really don't get how an average calorie intake of 1225 is dangerously low. I read about a British Diabetes study where they only fed the subjects 600 calories daily for 2 months. How can doctors and scientists get away with doing that if 1225 is dangerously low? I could see how 1225 could be dangerously low for some people, like children and individuals with already low body fat. But I do not see how it was dangerous for me, since I started with a fuel tank that had 161,000 calories worth of fat in it. I have said it before, but I ate high quality proteins, veggies, carbs, and oils every single day, plus my body had access to all the fat calories it wanted or needed, since it was all over me. The body fat was an estimate. The calipers were reading 0.5-0.8 mm, and the chart only goes to 2-3 mm, so I had to guess. The other thing I don't get is the questions/insinuations about doing a cycle. The results are easily explained by the math. I did enough activity every day to burn, on average, 3023 calories, and I ate, on average, 1225 calories every day. Multiply by 12 weeks and throw in the calories for muscle gained, and it adds up to 46 pounds of fat lost. It was no secret that I have lifted on and off for almost 28 years, so I have built up some good muscle under the fat, and for me it has always been easier to re-gain muscle than to gain it the first time. Life just got the better of me the last five years and I really let myself go. I gained 6 lbs of lean mass over the 12 weeks, but I would argue that 2-3 lbs of that was just due to getting proper hydration and taking creatine, so I maybe gained 3-4 pounds of muscle over 12 weeks. Gaining 0.25-0.33 lbs of muscle per week just doesn't scream cycle to me. Thanks for the compliments. I appreciate your kind words! I really have no interest in misleading people, so I will be looking into what you have said. Thanks, Man! I hope you keep making progress toward your goals! Have a great day!
Response to My Answer: I didnt mean to offend at all! Sorry if I have! Layne Norton, Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon are some good scientists (PhD's) to follow but there are also plenty of articles on http://ajcn.nutrition.org/ , http://jn.nutrition.org/ , http://www.jissn.com/ , http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ and pubmed Type II diabetes, while they dont understand exactly what causes it, it is a case with insulin resistance and the majority of people that develop it are incredibly medically obese. Wetbreasts (a user on here who was ginormous and couldnt fit in the shower http://www.youtube.com/user/wetbreast http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/Wetbreasts/ ) could eat like 500 Cals and live for a fair while due to the fat storage. The reason they cured type II was because they were no longer morbidly obese. The 600 Cals a day would not have been continued throughout their transition into more normal weights and also the 600Cals for so long with cardio (in your case) is basically starving your body and your metabolism is (theoretically and scientifically proven) going to come to a halt, throwing out endocrine system and hormones etc. But yet here you are. Living proof that you got shredded on it! Yep. Knew it was calipers :P Its one of those other "scientifically proven" things. You're meant to lose a fair bit of muscle during such a cut, especially one with such a low Calorie intake (I cut on 2800 at the start of my cut but im younger). Yet you seemed to have gained a huge chunk. Now this is usually called "noob gains" or gains achieved in the first year or so where this is possible. But you literally got JACKED (arms look way bigger but maybe its just me) and only in like 12 weeks! I know you're not trying to mislead people. I'm more interested in this story, due to how you seemed to have defied what has been proven (to be or not to be) scientifically so far.
Have a great day too man!
Answer: Thanks for your response. I am only interested in the truth. I have no attachment to any particular weightlifting or nutritional philosophy. I only care about what works, what is healthy, and what optimizes my results for the effort I expend. I do not want this to sound contentious, so please don't take any of this the wrong way. Your list of scientists and links is impressive looking, but they are just links to organization's websites and/or online journals. They are not articles or papers addressing the issues we are discussing. You seem to throw around the term 'scientifically proven' quite a bit. I would caution you against accepting conclusions in such a final way. You may be closing yourself off to a method or philosophy from which you could benefit. Your original post (in which you said Intermittent Fasting, fasted cardio, and fewer carbs in the afternoon were all scientifically proven not to work) got me thinking, so I did a bit of searching online, and from what I saw the science is not settled on these issues. There are differing hypotheses and differing research results on all of these topics. I want to optimize the return on my efforts and resources as much as the next guy, so I would love to have the scientific proof of what is the best course of action for all sorts of areas of my life, especially when it comes to bodybuilding. However, the human body is an incredibly complex system and we are still learning how it works. For every study that concludes one thing, there is another with a different conclusion. It is a process. And there will be many twists and turns and dead-ends along the way. Again, I would caution you against accepting things with such finality. Just a quick note on Intermittent Fasting. There are different schools of thought using the same name. The one that I tried is detailed on leangains.com. It is an intra-day protocol (8 hours eating, 16 hours fasting). There is another one which is an intra-week protocol (5 days eating, 2 days fasting). I don't know about the second one. I have not tried it. It is entirely possible that Intermittent Fasting is not what helped me get lean. It could just be that I ate very little food and worked out a lot. I don't know, but based on the best information I have from my own personal experience along with what I have read, I believe it works. That is my conclusion for me. I am convinced enough that I suggest others try it for themselves. Have you tried Intermittent Fasting? Give it a shot for a few weeks and see whether or not it works for you. In your response to the Diabetes study, you seemed to get confused, saying that I ate 600 calories a day and did cardio. The 600 calories a day was for the study group I referenced. I averaged 1225 calories a day for 12 weeks. My calories varied over the 12 weeks from 900 to 1900, but the average was about 1225. I started at 1900 the first 10 days, then went to 900 for 5.5 weeks, then as my body fat decreased, I increased my calories to 1450 for two weeks, then down to 1350 for three weeks. I just don't see how this is so radical. And I certainly don't see why it would shut down my metabolism and throw out my endocrine system and hormones. As far as looking jacked, thank you, but I think you are being misled by proportion. I am not a big guy. When I have clothes on, I look skinny. I reduced my waist from 43" to 30", so the other parts of my body look bigger compared to my waist. I actually lost inches on pretty much all my measurements. As far as the 'noob gains' thing goes, have you never heard of 'muscle memory' for bodybuilders? It is way easier to re-attain a level of muscle development than it is to gain it initially. It blows 'noob gains' out of the water. Unfortunately, because my working out over the years has been so sporadic, I have become well acquainted with 'muscle memory' due to my many lay-offs from weightlifting. I have had to start over on lifting weights dozens of times in the last 28 years. My strength and size normally rebound very quickly, but due to my getting so lean this time around, I am nowhere near where I would usually be after four months. In the past, when I start lifting again, I can usually get my Dumbbell Incline Press up to 16 reps with 100 lb dumbbells after 12 weeks, but during the Challenge I never managed to do more than 10 reps with 80 lb dumbbells. So in my book, I sacrificed size and strength to get so lean. It was worth it to get lean, but I do really miss being stronger. I hope to gradually get back up there, while still staying fairly lean. I think science is great (I'm an engineer) and we should read and consider what scientists, doctors, and experts have to say about things. But some subjects have more gray areas than others. I trust what the research tells me about the strength of steel and concrete. These things are relatively simple to study and test, so the conclusions can be widely accepted with confidence. The human body is not so simple to study and test, so I do not accept all studies and their conclusions with the same confidence. There are no differing opinions in the engineering world about the modulus elasticity of 356.1T51 Aluminum, so I can accept the results with finality. That is not the case with human physiology. There are gray areas, and there are many differing opinions, hypotheses, and test results. So I am much more cautious in accepting research results with finality when it comes to the human body. I would rather use my judgment and if it sounds reasonable, try it for myself. I am not discounting what you say at all. You have made me think and I will continue to look into these things. That is principle #10, Don't stop learning. I would love to find out Intermittent Fasting doesn't work, because it is sometimes unpleasant. And carbs in the evening would be nice too. I encourage you to keep an open mind and keep trying new things. It doesn't take all that long to test something out for yourself. After a few week investment, you will have an answer one way or the other. You do have to fully commit, though, or it isn't a fair test. I wish you the best. Have a great day, and an even better workout! God bless.
Comments